F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

What are you developing?
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Squonk42
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by Squonk42 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:21 pm

OK, no problem, let us keep them!

bianchifan
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by bianchifan » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:20 am

racemaniac wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:28 am
..but i do understand that as it currently is, it'll be easier to have actually produced by someone.
Ok, seems to be my fault, I just read the first post carefully again... now I understand all those fuckin' Taobao links better ;)

Nevertheless, i found some KiCad projects in here, so why not combine both, elec freak who like to solder and designs ready for production?
Resourcing for the needed component should be the problem of the producing factory(ies), normally they should know where to buy :mrgreen:

When I must read all that stuff regarding two or multilayer, SDcard and so on..plz keep in mind the header: f4 versions of "the BluePill"!
The "BluePill" has no SD card, has two layers, 2-sided components, not the smallest.. in short: its cheap, its cheaper, its cheapest - that's all!
ChrisMicro wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:01 am
This one ? RobotDyn?
No, as I wrote UNO
the predecessor of this one
from times when they started selling on ALI - with free shippin' that time;)

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Squonk42
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by Squonk42 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:58 pm

bianchifan wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:20 am
Resourcing for the needed component should be the problem of the producing factory(ies), normally they should know where to buy :mrgreen:
Yes, but defining exactly what to buy is the designer's problem :mrgreen:
And to get the cheapest solution, you need to compare different sources!
bianchifan wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:20 am
When I must read all that stuff regarding two or multilayer, SDcard and so on..plz keep in mind the header: f4 versions of "the BluePill"!
The "BluePill" has no SD card, has two layers, 2-sided components, not the smallest.. in short: its cheap, its cheaper, its cheapest - that's all!
Yes, but the BluePill has some well known flaws:
  • wrong USB pull-up resistor
  • Bad analog power supply / ground, resulting in poor ADC performance
  • Useless BOOT1 header & jumper
  • BOOT0 header & jumper are huge, could be more practical to have a second button instead
Now if you go from STM32F103 to STM32F405, you got more problems:
  • larger package: 10x10 LQFP64 vs. 7x7 LQFP48, doesn't fit so easily!
  • Power consumption: 240 mA vs. 50 mA max, so you need a beefier voltage regulator (at least 600 mA) to be useful, with low drop-out voltage (< 250 mV) for the board to allow powering from a 3.7V LiPo battery
Now, besides more processing power, single-precision FPU, more Flash and RAM memory, the STM32F405 also brings in some nice features:
  • USB OTG: but if you want to implement Host mode, you need to provide an USB load switch
  • SDIO: you need at least to break out these pins, or provide an optional SDIO socket
  • I2S: here, too, you need at least to break out the additional pins
  • More GPIOs: break out if possible
... All this on a 2-layer, 2-sided components, same form-factor board at the cheapest possible price: this is exactly where we are at, by weighting carefully each component and each decision together ;)

racemaniac
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by racemaniac » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:03 pm

btw, concerning the buttons
Squonk, i like the small buttons you linked... but can't find them anywhere on aliexpress or ebay (okay, i could find them from 1 seller at a ridiculously high price more than 1€ a piece)
Can we maybe find some buttons that are small enough and that can easily be sourced by those wanting to make their own boards?

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Pito
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by Pito » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:41 pm

Resourcing for the needed component should be the problem of the producing factory(ies), normally they should know where to buy :mrgreen:
Usually they [pcb manufacturers who offer assembly] request you to provide them with the vendor's IDs for all the BOM parts, they source from standard sources like digikey, mouser, etc. I doubt, however, the $2 BluePill-like boards manufacturers source from those large distributors [they are expensive]. Most probably they collect the cheap surplus parts from local companies [large market with spare/surplus parts]..
Pukao Hats Cleaning Services Ltd.

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RogerClark
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by RogerClark » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:34 pm

Perhaps the best solution with the components is to initially supply them to the manufacturer

However I am not sure on the setup for the pick and place machines.

Probably best to speak to a company who already manufactures a similar board.
Robot Dyn have replied to 2 of my emails about their Black Pill board, so perhaps if we placed a large enough order they may be interested.
Basically its all about the money. I can get boards hand soldered in China, but they charged around $10 each , and that was for a less complex board

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Squonk42
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by Squonk42 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:26 pm

racemaniac wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:03 pm
btw, concerning the buttons
Squonk, i like the small buttons you linked... but can't find them anywhere on aliexpress or ebay (okay, i could find them from 1 seller at a ridiculously high price more than 1€ a piece)
Can we maybe find some buttons that are small enough and that can easily be sourced by those wanting to make their own boards?
I usually buy them from Mouser, but they are also available at other online distributors.

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Squonk42
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by Squonk42 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:41 pm

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:34 pm
Perhaps the best solution with the components is to initially supply them to the manufacturer

However I am not sure on the setup for the pick and place machines.

Probably best to speak to a company who already manufactures a similar board.
Robot Dyn have replied to 2 of my emails about their Black Pill board, so perhaps if we placed a large enough order they may be interested.
Basically its all about the money. I can get boards hand soldered in China, but they charged around $10 each , and that was for a less complex board
IMHO, the best approach is to first design a board with a careful part selection, so they can be sourced cheap both from China (TaoBao is a good way to check for the best deals) and from either global online distributors or AliExpress/eBay.

The idea is to correct the BluePill flaws, take into account interesting features in more powerful chips like the F405, but without adding to the bill or over-engineering.

Then get the PCB done and assemble some prototypes by hand by as many volunteers in this forum as possible to debug the design and correct hardware bugs.

And eventually, we could approach some manufacturers with gerber and BOM files, and ask them for the cost of sourcing, PCBA, bootloader flashing, storage and shipment from AliExpress/eBay/Amazon direct from China. Maybe charge a small extra fee to pay your server and electricity bill, Roger :)

racemaniac
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by racemaniac » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:47 am

Squonk42 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:26 pm
racemaniac wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:03 pm
btw, concerning the buttons
Squonk, i like the small buttons you linked... but can't find them anywhere on aliexpress or ebay (okay, i could find them from 1 seller at a ridiculously high price more than 1€ a piece)
Can we maybe find some buttons that are small enough and that can easily be sourced by those wanting to make their own boards?
I usually buy them from Mouser, but they are also available at other online distributors.
that's great, but i'm from europe ^^'
buying from the likes of mouser/digikey/... is pretty expensive in shipping fees for me ^^'

but after looking i actually found 1 aliexpress seller selling it at a good price: aliexpress link
Besides the measurements, isntead of giving the part number in the description, it's the name of the photo -_- (thanks google for finding that)

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Squonk42
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by Squonk42 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:57 am

racemaniac wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:47 am
Squonk42 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:26 pm
I usually buy them from Mouser, but they are also available at other online distributors.
that's great, but i'm from europe ^^'
buying from the likes of mouser/digikey/... is pretty expensive in shipping fees for me ^^'
Me too :P
racemaniac wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:47 am
but after looking i actually found 1 aliexpress seller selling it at a good price: aliexpress link
Besides the measurements, isntead of giving the part number in the description, it's the name of the photo -_- (thanks google for finding that)
Thank you for sharing the link. We are lucky, this button is used in BMW/Mercedes car keyfobs!

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