Linux Journal

Anything not related to STM32
racemaniac
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by racemaniac » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 am

mrburnette wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 pm
i'm not really anti-(ms) windows for that matter
Well, I am... anti-MS. I spent many years as a MCSE Windows-role architect and have thousands of Windows automated installations under my belt and years of 3rd and 4th level engineering support.

... Rick's screwed up royally. ... he went to reply and inadvertently edited instead .. I'm so sorry Ray
Nah... no problem Rick... beware the edit icon :lol:

... To elaborate in a weebit less words than the original: Wife's PC broke Jan 2016 and I bought a 2nd hand refurbished notebook and installed Linux Mint 17.x on the box. She had 23 years of Windows experience at work and she move to Linux @home with no issues... I did not get yelled at even once. :mrgreen: She edits WP and spreadsheets in Open Office and moves files between Windows 8.1 and Linux Mint without any concerns.

Here is the punch line:
If my 66 YO wife can move from Windows to Linux, anyone in this forum can too. Just bite the bullet, convert, and stop all the rediculous bla, bla, bla excuses ... or, would you like everyone to know you were passed in the techno fast lane by a granny?

Just do it.


Ray
lol XD
couple of years ago when my parents' pc was having HD issues, i temporarily booted it with a ubuntu live cd so we at least could browse the internet on it.
I think it took my ~60YO mother a full 10 minutes to get stuck on firefox having opened a tab full screen, without address bars or any kind of window controls, and not knowing the firefox shortcuts myself i came close to having to reboot the computer to get out of it XD (i think i ended up logging out & back in, nearly as bad XD).
it's ofcourse a silly first experience, but it's the kind of thing that leaves people with a very bad feeling if they're ever suggested to move to linux ^^'.

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ahull
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by ahull » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:28 am

I've never been a big fan of all things Micro$oft, however, they do seem to have a tenacious grip on the majority of people's perception of what can be done with their computer. Most of us don't like to stray out of our comfort zone.

Having said that, if you give someone Linux, but don't tell them what it is, they tend to be able to use it without any more issues than they might experience in Windoze. Furthermore it could be argued that since everyone who ever picked up and Android phone, has uses Linux, then the vast majority of those exposed to any form of modern technology, have been, or still are Linux users.

I on the other hand I personally, probably encounter Windoze less than 1% of my working life these days, and I feel at least 99% less stressed as a result ;)
- Andy Hull -

racemaniac
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by racemaniac » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:19 am

ahull wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:28 am
I've never been a big fan of all things Micro$oft, however, they do seem to have a tenacious grip on the majority of people's perception of what can be done with their computer. Most of us don't like to stray out of our comfort zone.

Having said that, if you give someone Linux, but don't tell them what it is, they tend to be able to use it without any more issues than they might experience in Windoze. Furthermore it could be argued that since everyone who ever picked up and Android phone, has uses Linux, then the vast majority of those exposed to any form of modern technology, have been, or still are Linux users.

I on the other hand I personally, probably encounter Windoze less than 1% of my working life these days, and I feel at least 99% less stressed as a result ;)
Lol, i feel a bit the opposite way around :). When a bit younger (although i'm still pretty young XD), the promises of open source fascinated me, and was really curious, but when attempt after attempt of trying it out failed and just ended up me digging myself into really deep holes, and i just kept encountering half finished things, difficult to install things, things working worse than on windows (for example back in the day multi monitor support was pretty bad), only finding old/half finished tools etc... i kind of gave up, and windows isn't ideal either, but seeing a big set of things with proper backwards compatibility and a lot of interoperability is really nice :).
i'm sure some of the things i remember are pretty outdated, but i'm now pretty pragmatic about open source. Don't mind it at all, but i've come to realise people tolerate a whole lot of half finished and user unfriendly things when it comes to open source, and i just don't have the drive to endure all of that crap. For me Microsoft is far from ideal too, being the big corporation and the shit that comes with that, but it feels like a better managed & more usable environment for me :).

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ahull
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by ahull » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:38 am

racemaniac wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:19 am
For me Microsoft is far from ideal too, being the big corporation and the shit that comes with that, but it feels like a better managed & more usable environment for me :).
I think you should crank up a modern distro, Linux Mint or Ubuntu for example, and see how much things have changed.

You should be pleasantly surprised.

It is different from Windows, and that can lead to some head scratching, but I actually find that more hardware "just works" in Linux these days, than in Wiindows 10. This is mainly because Windows seems to drop support for older hardware, if the drivers are not signed by the Gatesian Empire, thus ensuring that A) your perfectly serviceable printer/scanner/whatever ends up in landfill, and B) You have to buy the latest, more flimsy, less well engineered printer/scanner/whatever to replace it.
- Andy Hull -

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RogerClark
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:05 am

I find Windows 7 a much better workhorse than W10.

I have a machine with W10 on it, purely for testing, but its always updating and generally being a nuisance.

I know the WIndows 7 drivers system is not as advanced as W10, and W10 supposedly has Bluetooth LE etc, but in practice BLE on W10 didnt work for any of the dongles I tried, so I can't see a compelling reason to go to 10

racemaniac
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by racemaniac » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:56 am

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:05 am
I find Windows 7 a much better workhorse than W10.

I have a machine with W10 on it, purely for testing, but its always updating and generally being a nuisance.

I know the WIndows 7 drivers system is not as advanced as W10, and W10 supposedly has Bluetooth LE etc, but in practice BLE on W10 didnt work for any of the dongles I tried, so I can't see a compelling reason to go to 10
i've mostly just kept up with new windows releases, and things like the new start menu take some getting used to (but by now i like them, i don't need a hierarchical start menu with a 1000 things, i've got 20 things i use often directly reachable, and anything else i just start typing the name and it immediatly finds it for me), and indeed, windows 10 has more big updates, but never anything that really annoyed me.
only back in the day vista had its reputation of needing a decent pc to run properly, not a bottom of the barrel one, so i made sure i (and people who asked my advice) had a pc that was up to the challenge, and never had any issues with it, liked working with it (both at home & at work).

And indeed, should give linux another try, it's come a long way since i last tried. But i've also reduced my expectations of open source quite a bit over the past years. The community always seems to be convinced they've got this incredible thing, and you can do anything, till you actually try XD.
Stupid recent issue: having some raspberry pi's, i wanted to set one up as a motion detector, with the standard raspberry pi camera (not a usb one).
I expected this to be a walk in the park (looking up raspberry pi & motion detection made me believe it was a solved problem)... still haven't got it working :p. there is a motion sensor package, that works with any usb camera, but not the raspberry pi camera -_-. then there was an older package that some people linked that would do it, but couldn't get it to work. It even took me quite a while to just get the regular camera software of the pi running and making 1 jpg every 5s (just giving an easy gui to enable the camera you connected, or just detecting it's there would not be linux, would it XD).
At least got that running (even immediately making images as soon as it boots... but that gives the great sideeffect of the preview screen of the camera beign superimposed on the raspberry pi showing its boot up log).
That's my usual experience with linux & open source. I set out to do a simple task with what i think would be a very standard case, and i end up struggling with it for a weekend, and settling on a solution that isn't what i was hoping for -_- (or worst case, giving up because it's just not worth my time & frustration).

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RogerClark
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:00 pm

I don’t think the RPi is a good indicator of the unruliness of Linux.

I have 4 different RPi boards and have yet to find a project which they are suitable for.

e.g. recently I thought I would use my RPi Zero W to scan for my Bluetooth thermomenters and disolay that data on a web page using a web server in the RPi.
But I found out very soon, that this is not easy, because the Bluetooth suooort seems to be complicated and I could not find an easy way just to pioe the data to a web server e.g. to PHP

So I went back to coding it on. ESP32 and so far it’s much easier, but things in Linux.

I bet for your motion detector, it would be possible to detect general motion using the OV7670 camera on a Blue Pill. The only problem would be the frame buffer would need to only be 6 or 8k so it would be low resolution

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mrburnette
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by mrburnette » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:39 pm

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:05 am
I find Windows 7 a much better workhorse than W10.
<...>
IMHO, Win 8.1 when beaten into submission with numerous registry hacks is the better workhorse based upon my 2 years of experience with that distribution 4 years back (been on Linux exclusively for 2 years and would never go back to MS. You may remember that I spent years as a MCSE.)

For those Win users that avoid hacks to the registry, I suspect that Win 7 is better for their general usage.

Ray

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mrburnette
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by mrburnette » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:07 pm

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:00 pm
<....>
I have 4 different RPi boards and have yet to find a project which they are suitable for.
<...>
Back in February of this year, one of the first projects I built on a RPi was a live video webserver. The camera API is really rather robust.
https://elinux.org/RPi-Cam-Web-Interface
and
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/camera ... -for-sale/

Arduino'ish programmed hardware and ESP32/ESP8266 can host a video webpage but as you mentioned, the frame buffer takes a serious bite from SRAM.

The RPi-Zero-W has 512MB of RAM for $5 with a 1GHz clock. If you need 1G of RAM, the RPi 3 is often found for $29 and regularly at $35 from MicroCenter in the USA.

With Linux on the RPi, one can run a serious webserver such as lighttpd, PHP, Python w/flask, ... even Apache.

Not being harsh on anyone who has not found a use for a Raspberry Pi, but likely it is a lack of comfort and productivity with Linux tools. One absolutely must be comfortable down under the UI. The learning curve can be steep for Windows only developers, IMO mainly due to the multitude of tools, many that are repetitive with just a little different flavors added.

I often use an ESP8266 (cheap) with the WiFi turned off as an Arduino-compatible for simple projects where more SRAM is necessary than the Maple Mini clones will provide... truth of the matter is that the only reason in my mind that the STM32duino exists is because it had more SRAM than the AVR-based Mega and a lower price point and secondarily has better architecture implemented on that slice of silicon.

Raspberry Pi Zero-W can be compared to the ESP8266 for battery requirements ... around 800mA peak. Add LiOn mAH to fit the task.

Another thing I find useful is that SSH is easy to implement for remote control (headless systems) and VNC works very well if one needs a remote GUI and VNCserver is integrated into the RPi OS distribution for consistency - literally only setup is providing a local User account (in some cases.)


Ray

racemaniac
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Re: Linux Journal

Post by racemaniac » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:36 pm

mrburnette wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:07 pm
RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:00 pm
<....>
I have 4 different RPi boards and have yet to find a project which they are suitable for.
<...>
Back in February of this year, one of the first projects I built on a RPi was a live video webserver. The camera API is really rather robust.
https://elinux.org/RPi-Cam-Web-Interface
and
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/camera ... -for-sale/



Not being harsh on anyone who has not found a use for a Raspberry Pi, but likely it is a lack of comfort and productivity with Linux tools.
Ray
thanks, going to give that camera interface a try :). looks promising (but that has bitten me far too often ^^')

Concerning the lack of comfort & productivity with linux tools... isn't that part of the linux problem ^^'. i know my basics of the linux command line, how to edit config files etc.., i don't get stuck on when i need elevated privileges. but it's usually still a royal pita to find out what i need to configure, and then get it all configured. please just give me a gui that covers the most common scenarios, and if i want to dig deeper, then i can. but at least give me an easy way to get started XD

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