Making your own pcb's.

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RogerClark
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:33 pm

zmemw16 wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:22 pm
fan for that T*** oven, anyone thought about using magnetic coupling ?
some pretty strong magnets about these days, less than a 1:1 pickup ratio, i.e. 1:3, 1:4 ratio doesn't really matter as long it moves the air inside.
of course i'm hoping the mounting panel is not steel :-)
stephen
Won’t the heat degamnetize ?

Also, it would still need a bearing

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:36 pm

racemaniac wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:55 pm
Squonk42 wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 pm
racemaniac wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:11 am
currently i'm also soldering in a skillet :)
i was pleasantly surprised how well it works with small boards :)
i'm glad i chose to invest in a stencil cutter first so i can quickly apply the solder paste, and even properly solder qfn stm32's, and buying/building an oven is also on my list, but soldering in an old skillet is just working so well that i currently have little motivation to look for something else XD
What do you mean by "stencil cutter"?

I am also looking for a cheap way to do pick&place...
Stencil cutter: something to create your own solder paste stencils (based on the paste layer gerbers).

I learned about it here: http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/vi ... =68&t=5341
basically: you buy a silhouette cutting machine (you can probably easily find second hand models, but i bought a new one, A4 size, for 150€)
and someone made a pythonscript to convert gerbers in really precise cutting instructions for that machine. giving you great results from it, directly from gerber files (see the linked forum topic, it's mentioned there in the first page).
as many people recommend, you just buy a bunch of overheadslides (good material, perfect thickness), and then you can start cutting your own dirt cheap solder paste stencils, that work really well for me :).
seeing what a solder paste stencil usually costs, even the cheap ones from china, a 150€ investment and then having cheap custom stencils for whatever i can want (when first working with the QFN chips, i made stencils for only them so i could learn how to work with them properly).

it's maybe not as good as a metal stencil, but for my current needs, i'm *very* happy with this setup :). and btw also invest in high quality solder paste if you want to solder the more difficult ic's :).
Will a laser cutter make stencils ?

I have a heavily modified Chinese made CO2 laser cutter, which I have increased the power to 110W

racemaniac
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by racemaniac » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:44 pm

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:36 pm
racemaniac wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:55 pm
Squonk42 wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 pm

What do you mean by "stencil cutter"?

I am also looking for a cheap way to do pick&place...
Stencil cutter: something to create your own solder paste stencils (based on the paste layer gerbers).

I learned about it here: http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/vi ... =68&t=5341
basically: you buy a silhouette cutting machine (you can probably easily find second hand models, but i bought a new one, A4 size, for 150€)
and someone made a pythonscript to convert gerbers in really precise cutting instructions for that machine. giving you great results from it, directly from gerber files (see the linked forum topic, it's mentioned there in the first page).
as many people recommend, you just buy a bunch of overheadslides (good material, perfect thickness), and then you can start cutting your own dirt cheap solder paste stencils, that work really well for me :).
seeing what a solder paste stencil usually costs, even the cheap ones from china, a 150€ investment and then having cheap custom stencils for whatever i can want (when first working with the QFN chips, i made stencils for only them so i could learn how to work with them properly).

it's maybe not as good as a metal stencil, but for my current needs, i'm *very* happy with this setup :). and btw also invest in high quality solder paste if you want to solder the more difficult ic's :).
Will a laser cutter make stencils ?

I have a heavily modified Chinese made CO2 laser cutter, which I have increased the power to 110W
i'm sure there are some resources out there on making stencils with a CO2 cutter :). but since the cutter i use (with a blade) has some proprietary protocol, the tools i'm using aren't going to be compatible with your cutter ^^'

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RogerClark
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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:48 pm

OK

The machine control software can take a variety of formats, e.g. DXF

Can you link to info about how you converted the kicks file

I will also look for Gerber to DXF

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by racemaniac » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:08 pm

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:48 pm
OK

The machine control software can take a variety of formats, e.g. DXF

Can you link to info about how you converted the kicks file

I will also look for Gerber to DXF
everything concerning my way of making stencils is in the thread i linked:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/vi ... =68&t=5341
and the tool is named gerber2graphtec:
https://github.com/pmonta/gerber2graphtec

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by victor_pv » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:27 pm

Roger, this blog shows the different methods with some videos, and compares them:
https://lowpowerlab.com/2015/03/27/lase ... -tutorial/

According to him the laser cut ones are the best. Obviously buying a $3000 or more cutter just for that is not worth it, that's where the siloutte cutter has an advantage.

In my case I bought a 3W laser for my 3d printer, since I wanted to also engrave wood and other materials. the 3W one actually is more than enough for cutting wood, not just engraving it. As soon as I get some transparency film, I'll try cutting stencils with it, but I'm sure after some tuning it should work.

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by racemaniac » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:34 pm

and that the silhouette is the formfactor of a small inktjet printer is also an advantage XD
Seeing the article you linked, it's from before the gerber2graphtec tool i believe? since i can use that pythonscript, it's all nicely automated, and i think it also separates the cuts per direction so you don't get the nasty sideffects of the blade trying to do a corner.
my stencils with 0.5mm spaced qfn pads are working perfectly :)

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:16 pm

victor_pv wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:27 pm
Roger, this blog shows the different methods with some videos, and compares them:
https://lowpowerlab.com/2015/03/27/lase ... -tutorial/

According to him the laser cut ones are the best. Obviously buying a $3000 or more cutter just for that is not worth it, that's where the siloutte cutter has an advantage.

In my case I bought a 3W laser for my 3d printer, since I wanted to also engrave wood and other materials. the 3W one actually is more than enough for cutting wood, not just engraving it. As soon as I get some transparency film, I'll try cutting stencils with it, but I'm sure after some tuning it should work.
Thanks

I think last time I tried to cut a stencil I tried getting it to cut the individual outlines, but the result was not that good, as the machine is not really designed to cut lots of tiny lines, and getting the power vs speed vs acceleration of the machine just right is difficult

So the method in the video where it effectively rasterises the data, is much more controllable, as the cutting head is at a fixed speed as it sweeps across the target, and I should be able to set the power to the correct level, I.e too little and it doesn’t cut through at all, and too much and it’s likely to burn the edges.

BTW. 3W laser may be enough to cut Mylar if you go slow enough.

Also, my laser cost around $600 USD when I bought it 2 years ago. And in its basic form, it claims to be 50W but is actually 30W

But I did spend another $500 buying an commercial / industrial grade laser tube, and new 24kV PSU to get the power up to over 100W so I can cut thicker materials.

However even with 100W I can’t cut metal, of any thinness. Well actually, I have not tried any metal foil but I would not be able to cut metal thick enough to make a stencil

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by RogerClark » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: Pick and place

I am sure I saw something about modifying a small aquarium pump and turning the one way valve around to make it into a vacuum pump.

But perhaps the vacuum pump in that article is even cheaper

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Re: F405 & F411 versions of the BluePill

Post by lkcl » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:56 pm

RogerClark wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:21 pm
Re: Pick and place

I am sure I saw something about modifying a small aquarium pump and turning the one way valve around to make it into a vacuum pump.

But perhaps the vacuum pump in that article is even cheaper
investigated this a while back, found openpnp. hint: make damn sure that you include the "optional" rod that connects both belts. it's not optional at all: you do *not* want the 2nd belt to freewheel. 2040 and 2020 extrusion and 3d-printed parts, everything off-shelf. also has some people creating tape-and-reel feeders on thingiverse. BOM is not half bad. all fiwmware available fully libre-sourced.

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